Would Louisville ever have the balls to can Pitino?
With the school firing Ron Cooper after a season and a half, and fans calling for Kragthorpe's head after two, how come Ricky P with his recent resume of minimal achievement and massive slumps is able to receive a pass? I remember reading my grandparents' UofL Athletics year-in-review book like three years ago, where it was listing accomplishments of various sports. For each team mentioned, they provided an impressive ranking or conference or regional title. Then, for basketball, it had some generic statement like: "And the Cardinal basketball team tried really hard and played with a lot of character and poise." Or something to that effect. If that had been some less notable sport, the publication wouldn't have even bothered mentioning it. Pretty sad for a school that tries to survive on its basketball history. Not too long ago, Jurich dumped several adminstrators including a good soccer coach, because they fell below his expectations, yet the golden Messiah Pitino seems immune to such discipline.
While at UofL, Pitino also has had a tendencey to make statements that inevitably come back to haunt him. The best one occured when he said, if invited, he would refuse to play in the NIT. Then when informed by the school and conference that he was financially obligated to participate, "The Great One" had to tuck tail between legs and alter his tune. It's also worth mentioning that they failed to win the tournament in question that was supposedly so much below the Slick Rick's standards. Don't even get me started with the Derrick Character fiasco. I've never seen so many opportunities given to such an ingrate save one of the Kennedys. Didn't SOMEONE say that DC was going to be better than Mashburn? Maybe if Mash had been a lazy pothead, it would have leveled the playing field.
Point being, without pun, what's the breaking point? Will he ever be held accountable? Or will the program's reputation continue to draw mockery for antics and statements that would make the Illinois governer drop his jaw? Denny Crum never received such special treatment. And he only won, what, two championships for the school?
While at UofL, Pitino also has had a tendencey to make statements that inevitably come back to haunt him. The best one occured when he said, if invited, he would refuse to play in the NIT. Then when informed by the school and conference that he was financially obligated to participate, "The Great One" had to tuck tail between legs and alter his tune. It's also worth mentioning that they failed to win the tournament in question that was supposedly so much below the Slick Rick's standards. Don't even get me started with the Derrick Character fiasco. I've never seen so many opportunities given to such an ingrate save one of the Kennedys. Didn't SOMEONE say that DC was going to be better than Mashburn? Maybe if Mash had been a lazy pothead, it would have leveled the playing field.
Point being, without pun, what's the breaking point? Will he ever be held accountable? Or will the program's reputation continue to draw mockery for antics and statements that would make the Illinois governer drop his jaw? Denny Crum never received such special treatment. And he only won, what, two championships for the school?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by skwerl on -
First of all, Ron Cooper coached three full seasons of football. Derrick CARACTER never smoked pot or broke any laws or university rules. He was in trouble with his coach for issues of laziness, etc. I can't decide which is more laffable, your obvious insecurity about Pitino or the fact that you bring up a comment regarding the NIT that happened years ago. Your on-line name should be "Sad Kentucky fan who still can't get over the fact that Rick took the Louisville Job". Also, the golden Messiah Pitino took his team to an Elite Eight and a Final Four. What did this poor soccer coach that is held to a different professional code ever accomplish at UL? Your comments smell like those of someone not even old enough to buy their date a drink. Also, just for the record, the comment was that Caracter was his most talented player SINCE Mashburn. Never ONCE did he EVER say that he was or would be a better player. What an ass clown you are.
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Permalink Reply by Mr_Skandl on -
Ask any sportscaster or program insider in town and they will tell that one of DC's chief handicaps was an overwhelming affinty for the wisdom weed. As I recall, Pitino even made several underlying comments about it during his talk show. As for the Ron Cooper stat, I said two and a half years, becasue he was pretty much dead man walking halfway through the season. I attended a lot of the call-in shows that season, and believe me the exchanged between coach and fan were both aggressive and priceless. The NIT appearance came in 2006. The following season, early on, some fans were in fact vehemently calling for Pitino's head on the ESPN radio affiliate until the Cards mended things and barely made the tourny.
And I'm not bitter about the way things turned out. I like Gillespie. I, as most UofK fans had gotten spoiled during the 90's. Billy G's teams make me appreciate even the least significant games against bottom barrell conference foes(largely because there's always a question of whether or not we'll prevail). He revives a lot of stress and excitement that I had taken for granted. My beef with Pitino comes from the fact that he is held to less of a standard than anyone else because of his achievements at a rival institution ten years past. If he had posted the same results at Kentucky during his tenure, Rick might night have survived five years. I also don't approve of the way that Denny Crum was run out of town. He gave the school most of its success and didn't deserve that kind of treatment.
By the way, you are very witty with your employment of the word assclown. I like how you preceded that with a question of age and maturity. Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black.
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Permalink Reply by James on -
Actually your specific sentence is "With the school firing Ron Cooper after a season and a half" and that's the very first words you say...
Second, while I agree Pitino has not accomplished at UL what he did at UK why do you bring this up??? Is it b/c he's not at UK anymore and at UL? Also I'm not sure what standard you're referring to b/c I do think Pitino has accomplished some very notable things since coming to UL which would give him some equity with the program... Kind of like getting to multiple elite 8's and a final four appearance along with multiple conference titles and frequently being in the top of the conference whether its been C-USA or the Big East... Yes I realize C-USA is not a premiere conference but I doubt you'd be able to argue the level of talent in the SEC was much greater than that of C-USA in the years Pitino coached in it...
Ultimately in my opinion what this comes down to again is you're another UK fan who now vehemently HATES Coach Pitino b/c he left UK and eventually made his way to UL... I guess I disagree this really has anything to do with Pitino being held to what you consider a lower standard.
I would argue UK didn't have the "balls" (as you put it) to out right fire Tubby Smith... Instead it was a we hate to see you go wink wink shove you out the door... Was that b/c Tubby was part of the Pitino coaching tree and he was able to win a National Championship with Pitino's players?
I will say I do think it would be difficult for UL to out right fire Coach Pitino b/c he has brought "some" recognition back to the UL basketball program whether its in some book or not, and lets be honest comparing men's basketball to soccer is comparing apples to oranges simply based on revenue. It doesn't matter what university you're referring to, any major athletic department who actually contends and plays in BCS football conferences or "big time" basketball conferences is a business and nothing more...
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Permalink Reply by Shawn Duncan on -
What multiple titles has Pitino won since coming to UL James????? I don't know of more than one. Please educate us on the multiple titles you're referring to.
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Permalink Reply by James on
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No Problem Shawn I'm more than happy to show you I know what I'm talking about... How are you doing today by the way? I hope you had a most joyous Christmas! Getting back to your question, 2003 and 2005 in C-USA "multiple" is more than 1... Both teams coached by Pitino... Here's a link to Wikipedia if you'd like to double check my reference to "multiple" titles...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference_USA_Men%27s_Basketball_Tour...
Shawn Duncan said:What multiple titles has Pitino won since coming to UL James????? I don't know of more than one. Please educate us on the multiple titles you're referring to.
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Permalink Reply by Shawn Duncan on
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Ok thanks James. You are correct. Pitino has two C-USA championships in his 8 years at UL. By the way I had a very joyous Christmas, how about you? I think that was a bad argument as to why Pitino has done a good enough job to avoid getting fired. I know I tease about cardinal fans expectations being lower than cat fans, but I do believe you guys were expecting more than he's delivered in his first 8 seasons. Would you agree with that statement James?
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Permalink Reply by James on
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My Christmas was great aside from the long 8 hour drive back from my original home state of North Carolina today but otherwise GREAT!
Honestly I can't speak for all cardinal fans and their expectations, as for me of course I won't argue that I would have hoped for more in the form of actually winning more conference titles or making it to the national championship game and actually playing for the title... But in my opinion, Pitino has been able to help raise the level of perception about UL basketball... Regardless of how he's playing right now, when you can recruit Samardo Samuels to choose UL over UNC I think things like that speak volumes...
But in reference to "expectations" in all honesty I'm not really sure what I "expected" from him... Yeah his name comes with some weight with the success he had at UK, but other than the 1 National Championship what did he really do? Yes he won many SEC Championships and he was a last second Christian Laetner shot away from winning a second National Championship... But in my opinion making it to the final four really means nothing if you don't win it right?
Shawn Duncan said:Ok thanks James. You are correct. Pitino has two C-USA championships in his 8 years at UL. By the way I had a very joyous Christmas, how about you? I think that was a bad argument as to why Pitino has done a good enough job to avoid getting fired. I know I tease about cardinal fans expectations being lower than cat fans, but I do believe you guys were expecting more than he's delivered in his first 8 seasons. Would you agree with that statement James?
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Permalink Reply by Shawn Duncan on
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That game against Laettner was in the elite 8. If he didn't hit that shot, the cats would have made it to the final four. I'm not sure if you were aware of that or not, with your comment about "last second Christian Laettner shot away from winning a second national championship."
I agree landing a recruit like Samuels is pretty impressive, but I wonder if he'd have chosen Carolina if Hansbrough would have gone pro last year. I know there is no reason speculating on that, because it means nothing, but it makes you wonder if UL was Samuels first or second choice.
I'm also not sure if the perception of cardinal basketball has truly been raised since he's been there. I don't think you guys give Crum nearly enough credit. The perception of the program was already at a pretty good level when Pitino arrived in 2001. You were only 15 years removed from a national title. I don't personally think this last 8 year stretch was much better than any 8 year stretch Crum had while he was in charge. Let's put it this way, Pitino has a long way to go before we can compare his accomplishments at UL to that of Denny Crums. In my opinion UL has never been perceived as an "elite program." I think you have UK, UCLA, IU, Duke, Kansas, and Carolina as your six elite programs. After that there are about 20 teams you could put next in line, Louisville included. I think Louisville was on the second tier of elite teams before Pitino, and I don't think after 8 years of Pitino that perception has really changed. Just my opinion.
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Permalink Reply by James on
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I agree I should not speculate like you said but wasn't UK the odds on favorite to win the NC that year??? I know we'll never know but I think they would have won it that year if not for that...
I totally agree Crum put UL basketball on the map with 2 National titles... I do think in his later years he was slipping some but no doubt he put the program on the map for sure! Aside from the national titles I do think Pitino has brought "some" higher recognition or prominence... No I don't think you can put UL's all time history on the level of UNC, UCLA, UK, IU etc...
Shawn Duncan said:That game against Laettner was in the elite 8. If he didn't hit that shot, the cats would have made it to the final four. I'm not sure if you were aware of that or not, with your comment about "last second Christian Laettner shot away from winning a second national championship."
I agree landing a recruit like Samuels is pretty impressive, but I wonder if he'd have chosen Carolina if Hansbrough would have gone pro last year. I know there is no reason speculating on that, because it means nothing, but it makes you wonder if UL was Samuels first or second choice.
I'm also not sure if the perception of cardinal basketball has truly been raised since he's been there. I don't think you guys give Crum nearly enough credit. The perception of the program was already at a pretty good level when Pitino arrived in 2001. You were only 15 years removed from a national title. I don't personally think this last 8 year stretch was much better than any 8 year stretch Crum had while he was in charge. Let's put it this way, Pitino has a long way to go before we can compare his accomplishments at UL to that of Denny Crums. In my opinion UL has never been perceived as an "elite program." I think you have UK, UCLA, IU, Duke, Kansas, and Carolina as your six elite programs. After that there are about 20 teams you could put next in line, Louisville included. I think Louisville was on the second tier of elite teams before Pitino, and I think after 8 years of Pitino I don't think that perception has really changed. Just my opinion.
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Permalink Reply by Jason on -
If i could add my 2 cents in, i read where S.S. picked UofL because of R.P., yes he was looking and N.C., and maybe, if T.H. went pro it may have swayed him, but thats like looking at P.P., UK was losing him before he decided to join. Don't know if it was because of B.G. or not. Tubby had him very interested.
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Permalink Reply by Mr_Skandl on
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Apologies are due for misspeaking about the number of seasons that Ron Cooper got to serve as coach. I guess, in hindsight, it was just one of those wirlwind experiences that seemed to make time excel. I would also wish to reiterate that my beef with Pitino comes less from distaste for the former Kentucky coach, and more with annoyance toward the way Denny Crum was treated. So, maybe my grudge is really with Jurich, who actually pulled the strings. Besides, after heavy soul-searching, Pitino only chose Louisville becasue he loves his wife, who told him that she'd rather raise their children in the Derby City than Ann Arbor.
But, you do have to admit that he's said and done some uncharacteristically quirky things in the past few years, while allowing several athletes to make him look really foolish. Lastly, I'm far from bitter about the current state of the Kentucky program. If I had a choice, though, C.M. Newton would be reassuming his former position long before Pitino. What makes me bitter, is the fact, that my beloved Chicago Bears, one of the wealthiest franchises in pro football, refuse to pay valuable players the cash it requires to retain them, thus dooming us to mediocrity season after season. But, no one on this forum cares to hear about that, so... whatever.
James said:Actually your specific sentence is "With the school firing Ron Cooper after a season and a half" and that's the very first words you say...
Second, while I agree Pitino has not accomplished at UL what he did at UK why do you bring this up??? Is it b/c he's not at UK anymore and at UL? Also I'm not sure what standard you're referring to b/c I do think Pitino has accomplished some very notable things since coming to UL which would give him some equity with the program... Kind of like getting to multiple elite 8's and a final four appearance along with multiple conference titles and frequently being in the top of the conference whether its been C-USA or the Big East... Yes I realize C-USA is not a premiere conference but I doubt you'd be able to argue the level of talent in the SEC was much greater than that of C-USA in the years Pitino coached in it...
Ultimately in my opinion what this comes down to again is you're another UK fan who now vehemently HATES Coach Pitino b/c he left UK and eventually made his way to UL... I guess I disagree this really has anything to do with Pitino being held to what you consider a lower standard.
I would argue UK didn't have the "balls" (as you put it) to out right fire Tubby Smith... Instead it was a we hate to see you go wink wink shove you out the door... Was that b/c Tubby was part of the Pitino coaching tree and he was able to win a National Championship with Pitino's players?
I will say I do think it would be difficult for UL to out right fire Coach Pitino b/c he has brought "some" recognition back to the UL basketball program whether its in some book or not, and lets be honest comparing men's basketball to soccer is comparing apples to oranges simply based on revenue. It doesn't matter what university you're referring to, any major athletic department who actually contends and plays in BCS football conferences or "big time" basketball conferences is a business and nothing more...
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